@#$% thing won't start

[SoCalExile]

I'm a new mechanic with a 71 Bumpside with a 400 under the hood that a previous owner installed. I replaced the plugs, wires, cap, rotor, condenser, points and coil. And while it ran rough (and very rich) before it won't start now

Someone suggested I check the carb and make sure the float wasn't getting stuck. So I tore it down, checked it and tried to set it to specs. Now while it doesn't seem to be flooding as much it still won't start.

Any ideas?

[papabug71]

Does it make an effort to start ? Spit, sputter ?

Getting fuel? Fire? Is the dizzy 180* out?

[fordman]

timing or timing chain?

[SoCalExile]

It sputtered once or twice when turning over - sounded like it fired on one cylinder maybe.

BTW, before I went over the carb there was fuel pooling in the low side of the intake manifold. Should I pop the valve covers off and make sure the valves move and I don't have a bent rod or eight?

In hindsight I should have double-checked how the wires were run to the dizzy before swapping them out - Noob mistake. I'll have to check the timing when I get home. I did move the wires all the way around the cap and still no joy.

One thing I'm scrathing my head on - in the back of my carb (Motorcraft 2100 or 2150) there's a small stemmed port pointing straight back that seems to run into the throat. Is this a PCV port? Currently there isn't anything plugged into it and no rubber cap on it.

[fordman]

It sputtered once or twice when turning over - sounded like it fired on one cylinder maybe.

BTW, before I went over the carb there was fuel pooling in the low side of the intake manifold. Should I pop the valve covers off and make sure the valves move and I don't have a bent rod or eight?

In hindsight I should have double-checked how the wires were run to the dizzy before swapping them out - Noob mistake. I'll have to check the timing when I get home. I did move the wires all the way around the cap and still no joy.

One thing I'm scrathing my head on - in the back of my carb (Motorcraft 2100 or 2150) there's a small stemmed port pointing straight back that seems to run into the throat. Is this a PCV port? Currently there isn't anything plugged into it and no rubber cap on it.

on the very bottom base? yes

[SoCalExile]

It sputtered once or twice when turning over - sounded like it fired on one cylinder maybe.

BTW, before I went over the carb there was fuel pooling in the low side of the intake manifold. Should I pop the valve covers off and make sure the valves move and I don't have a bent rod or eight?

In hindsight I should have double-checked how the wires were run to the dizzy before swapping them out - Noob mistake. I'll have to check the timing when I get home. I did move the wires all the way around the cap and still no joy.

One thing I'm scrathing my head on - in the back of my carb (Motorcraft 2100 or 2150) there's a small stemmed port pointing straight back that seems to run into the throat. Is this a PCV port? Currently there isn't anything plugged into it and no rubber cap on it.

on the very bottom base? yes

It's midway up, not even an inch from the top plate of the carb. I'll snap a pic of it when I get home.

Should it be plugged if it isn't running to something?

[knightfire83]

Reset the base timing by putting #1 piston at TDC with both valves closed. See where the rotor is pointing for #1 then check your spark plug wire routing according to the firing order. Make sure the wires are going in the correct direction according to the rotation of the dizzy. Sounds like maybe the firing order is backwards.

That port on the back of the carb would be a massive vacuum leak with nothing connected or plugging it.

[SoCalExile]

Reset the base timing by putting #1 piston at TDC with both valves closed. See where the rotor is pointing for #1 then check your spark plug wire routing according to the firing order. Make sure the wires are going in the correct direction according to the rotation of the dizzy. Sounds like maybe the firing order is backwards.

That port on the back of the carb would be a massive vacuum leak with nothing connected or plugging it.

Thanks, will do on the timing.

What is that port on the carb for?

There's a couple ports on my motor that aren't used, including one sitting on the intake manifold between the dizzy and the carb, with a piece of hose and a screw to seal it up . I also have two poets on the top of the vacuum advance, with one that's wide open, as you can see in this pic:



Are the disconnected ports for emissions stuff that a previous owner removed?

[knightfire83]

The port behind the carb is for the PCV valve hose.

The one between the carb and dizzy is likely emissions. Probably a temperature controlled vacuum switch.

The advance should have a ported vacuum source (vacuum only when throttle is opened up) connected to the port on top the hexagon shaped portion. Looks like you have it connected to the wrong port on the advance.

Your style of advance with 2 ports is for emissions stuff, likely originally connected to the port on the manifold between the carb and dizzy. I'm not sure about that maybe someone could point you to a hose diagram for the 400.

[SoCalExile]

The port behind the carb is for the PCV valve hose.

The one between the carb and dizzy is likely emissions. Probably a temperature controlled vacuum switch.

The advance should have a ported vacuum source (vacuum only when throttle is opened up) connected to the port on top the hexagon shaped portion. Looks like you have it connected to the wrong port on the advance.

Your style of advance with 2 ports is for emissions stuff, likely originally connected to the port on the manifold between the carb and dizzy. I'm not sure about that maybe someone could point you to a hose diagram for the 400.

The pic is of the engine before I got it. The hose on the vacuum advance has been corrected, but thanks for pointing that out.

I noticed this morning with the pic above that if you look closely, you can see the wires for the #6 & #5 cylinder and it looks to be routed to the wrong place on the dizzy - looks like one of the guys who owned it before me moved the wires one plug clockwise.

Regardless, I'll set it TDC and try to adjust the timing the right way.

[fordman]

here a pic of the vacuum diagram for the dual port vacuum advance.

[papabug71]

Craig, can you blow that pic up ?? I would like to give it a once over, but its itsy-bitsy small.

[fordman]

i fixed it now click on it. i stole it from barry (68f250)

[SoCalExile]

Thanks for the diagram, I've been looking for something like that. Seems I have a system with a PVS valve that's been turned into a simple system. Nothing is hooked up to my PVS valve.

I attempted the Little Dutch Boy technique of finding TDC. I looked for marks on the pulleys but didn't see any. Anyways, I stuck my finger over the #1 plug hole while it cranked.

I thought I was there but when I pulled the valve cover off the #1 valves didn't look even - maybe they weren't fully seated?

I moved the plugs to where I thought the picture showed them before - which was about 90º off of where I thought TDC was - and cleaned the plus which were fouled. It turned over on it's own a few times but I had to cut it off before it really got going. Tries after that resulted in flooding. I just pulled the plugs again to dry the cylinders and #1,2,5,7,&8 were dirty again. Should I get hotter plugs?

The TDC/valve position thing has me a bit worried. I guess I should pull the cover off the timing chain this weekend and see what I have.

Edit: the wife thinks I should take it to a professional to get it in running condition.

[knightfire83]

Well since you have the spark plugs out & valve covers off, it should be easy to get to TDC on #1.

1. Rotate the engine by hand, watching #1 valves.

2. Rotate till intake valve opens then closes for the intake stroke.

3. Piston will be going down and ready to come up now, for the compression stroke. Both valves closed.

4. Rotate till the piston comes up to the very top of its travel. You can stick a rod or screw driver in the spark plug hole to see what the piston is doing at the top. (careful not to get the rod jammed or stuck)

5. When you can move the crank a few degrees in either position and the screw driver doesn't move, then it's very close to TDC.

6. Align the timing marks on the ballancer to "0" or "TC". You are now at TDC on #1.

7. Now see where your distributor rotor is pointing at. Move the base of the dizzy till the rotor lines up with a spark plug wire terminal on the cap. This will be your #1 position. Tighten down the dizzy.

8. Route your wires in a counter clock wise direction as indicated by the firing order below. You can disregard the numbers on the dizzy cap in the picture. So long as you start at #1 where ever that may be and follow it in a counter clockwise direction with the firing order it will be correct for your engine.

9. If it runs, use a timing light to set your timing.

10. If it doesn't run, then you can move onto other troubleshooting ideas such as the carb.

Make sure your points are set correctly, or it will run poorly and also may not start. Getting a hotter plug isn't going to fix your problem at this point. For a engine to run it needs fuel, compression, ignition, and exhaust. Your problems are likely due to fuel or ignition. Eliminating one possible item at a time will eventually get'er running.