Anybody fool with supercharging?

[Dragon]

Roller lifters have very small axles and yet last longer than any other type in use and wear. Harleys were using Roller lifters in 1903 and still do to this day.

Any drag car with double letters in front of the slash mean supercharged or some kind of boost system. Single letters mean normally aspirated.

The letters after the slash are racing class letters. /S stock, /G gassers the top of the original carbed with doors and hood stock almost looking cars, /A Altereds radical short cars the fore runners to Funny Cars(/FC), /FD top Fuel Dragster (FD) or rails super long to help keep the nose down. So AA/FD is a Supercharged top fuel car that in my days was at 6000 feet could do 250 at 6.01 seconds in the quarter. Now with better tires and a lot of better anything they run low 4s at 350 mph and even less I am sure by now.

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Drag_racing

[heviarti]

Was always curious about the mill in the Swamp Rat.

I guess it's pretty sure that I need to look at the M90. There's also a unit one larger. I like the packaging of the Eaton unit. It lends itself to a driver's side mounting. The input at the tail and the output on the bottom which can hopefully be rotated to the top. Sight unseen I'd say I'd have to probably plug a vent on the top, and drill a hole in the bottom. Then I could install the gearbox vent that is supplied on all the baler gearboxes.

I may know a guy with a 6-53 blower. I just have to find him, which may be difficult... he's a friend of my ex-best-friend, and he lives off in the northeast of boise, and will be a major pain in the zhopa to locate.

Maybe I'll look at rollerizing the lifters. How much drag do you feel that would remove. I'll have to research a bit more, but if you say those little axles don't wear oblong or break it's worth a look. It just seems that the bearing surface is not great enough. Bearing surface is what seperates the inline six from the eight. a good part of it's reliability comes from it's greater bearing surface.

Here's a question, Dragon: is there any reason other than cost to not install a forged crank or higher grade rods? I've seen a set of aftermarket performance rods before... they were beautiful. The material they were made of was good. it felt good, looked good, and would ring like a bell if you hung it from a string and tapped it lightly with a machinist's hammer. All of the angles and cuts were thought out to lend it strength... Again I say my sense of aesthetics is a little different.

I really don't like EFI. the only gasoline injection system that truly interests me is one Chevy had in the late fifties. It gave them 1hp per CI, and in that time period would have had to have been fully mechanical. I worked with a shop that did newer (mainly after 1975) automobiles. I watched what was responsible for failures. As a side note I saw the craziest thing ever EVER done in an automotive shop:

[heviarti]

Sorry... text entry buffer.

This guy welded a new snout onto a crank with a wirefeed welder. not so bad, but he used a chopsaw to remove the snouts from both the donor and recipient crank. When I left Joplin the car had been running for six months. If Jack's still alive I bet it's still at the Eagle Drive-in every morning.

Forged pistons? you bet. I've got to shop around a little and figure out who makes the best what. I need to see if I can convince cousin Matt to do me a fave. He was involved in a project that used lasers to deposit carbide on cylinder walls. I was told when that is done the bores never wear out. Don't know what kind of rings a guy would use with it, but I might be able to get Matt to lay a block on the folks for me.

Rods straightened? I didn't know mine was bent?

I don't know about perpertual motion, but I came up with an idea for something darn close in junior high. If I had the money to build and patent half of my better ideas I'd be a multi-millionaire.

A couple of things I've thought up have surfaced here and there. Just other people having the same idea as me. often later. That new submachinegun with the tipping bolt? I came up with that same idea in high school. I was designing a semiauto rifle, and discounted the idea because the magazine would have to be on top, in the way of the sights. I can think of about six things I've thought up that people would use (in their respective industries) every day. So, yes, my brain is totally functional. I'm not bragging, trolling, or lying. I've just always been good at coming up with stuff.

[heviarti]

I found a good answer and it even has a Ford part number. Apparently there's a thing called a supercoupe that had an M90 with tail entry and top output. it also had a 3.8 in it like the buick that M90s come out of. M90 meets the 300 in engine size capability... now to find a chart for it and some info. and a 'supercoupe' to nab one out of.

[Dragon]

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/public/ ... 128485.gif M90 compression map still no good at low rpm.

[heviarti]

I don't entirely understand that diagram, but I do understand 4500 rpm. we can do that.

I already know for a fact I'd not engage it for effect until 1500 rpm, so barring some kind of major stumble in a shift (don't think i'd use it in less than third gear, leaving only 3 and 4) and according to www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/spex.html the max rpm is 15000ish and according to that map is 13000ish I would need a pulley to operate the blower at three times engine rpm... or 2.8ish if I wanted to be more conservative at the top end... but I don't think I'd really hit 5000.

I generally shift to third about 1800-2000 and to fourth anywhere from 2500-3500 at the top. Any time lately I'd have pulled the switch I've been in fourth and at at least 2000.

If I'd have had it installed I'd have used it saturday night and tonight at eight or so. Probably about fifteen seconds worth is all I'd have needed.

[averagef250]

The SC blowers have a bypass built into them. They freewheel under no boost and have almost no parasitic loss. I can't fathom how you still think the clutch is a great idea.

[Dragon]

If you can't understand that diagram I would drop this project. The green numbers at the bottom inside of the diagram are the rpm of the blower. The darkest area is the highest boost. The numbers on the left is the boost ratio. 1.3 is atmospheric pressure of 14.7 * 1.3 or 4.41 pounds starting at 5000 blower RPM and the blowers best output is 1.52 at 6000 blower rpm for 7.64 pounds of boost. The lines that separate the different colors with 60 and 58 and 56 are the blowers efficiency ratios. At best boost darkest circle it is only 60% efficiency ratio. Of all the air it can take in it can only compress 60%. That M90 will only be rated for 13500 and its efficiency is really dropping off. You would not want to short shift on your lower gears so the boost stays in it peak. At double speed on the blower you want to have blower in at 2500 and out at 3500 . That is a really weak blower in every aspect. a 4-71 would have to be run at 3/4 speed to not over boost your 300. As the rpms of the M90 rise the pressure does not drop but the efficiency or how much air it can get in the engine drops.

I am used to blowers with a curve that starts at 1000 rpm and peaks at 9000 rpm with 82% efficiency, With average boost ratios of 1.7 to 2.3. For pure air handling the original Detroit Diesel blowers had very tight clearances and ran non stop on service engines for years. Once racers started opening the clearances up because fuel and air mix does not compress into the lobe clearances if not enlarged then efficiency went down.

Unless you can do this as a bolt on and pre-engineered you need to do more research.

[heviarti]

so theoretically if you could run the blower at it's most efficient rpm, with the engine at any rpm you'd be better off? That doesn't sound right, but I have to ask.

Dyer's actually reccommended the M90 for the job. I did read that it's efficiency drops off about 12000 really bad. I'm waiting to hear back from the fordsix forum, but I never heard back the last time I tried to join. They have a section on boost. I have to say I've learned a lot more than I knew before, and am a heck of a lot closer to getting this to happen than I was before.

work to do now, more later