Resurecting after a decade of peaceful slumber.

[fordman]

brign a boat. i know what you mean we have lots of mud and water puddles up here too.

[dbarker]

Ok, so i hiked out there and took a pencil Heres what I've discovered.

1) with the key on, and the high tension wire laying against the well grounded but very dead a/c compressor, when i opened the dizzy I saw that the points were closed. i used my pencil to manually open them and saw spark at the points and at the HT wire from the coil!

So, I did this a few times, same results, opening and closing the points gives me spark all day.

2) When I turn the engine over, the high tension wire does NOT spark on its own. I have to open the points manually to get spark. (i'm assuming we are homing in on the issue with this bit of info)

Here's the new riddle:

When i turn the engine over with the key, are the points supposed to open and close as the rotor turns? I can't find any good videos on how it all works online so I'm running blind.

As for the downstream setup for the spark, The following ignition bits are new as of 13 years ago and 1000 miles:

All the plug wires are good, no issues. infact they're in better shape than the ones in my 94 F150 All contacts are clean and shiny with a firm grip and perfect rubber w/ no breaks.
The plugs all look good, or at least good enough. I may go ahead and use all new plugs just to know thats not the issue. They dont appear fouled up, covered in oil, whatever. they're clean with just a little appearance of having been used.
The dizzy cap has no cracks, all the contacts are clean with no damage.
The rotor is clean and also has no damage.

As soon as the lake dries up between me and it, and the ground is dry enough around it I'm gonna jack up the rear end and pull the rims off so I can get new rubber back there. The fronts still have some air, so I should be able to air em up for the ride up to the house. That will make all of this go much much quicker.

[convincor]

yes the points should open/close as the engine turns. Look at the cam in the distributor that the points ride on. It has 8 high spots. check your point gap. should be .017-.020"? when open. also clean them with a points file.
this may help- http://www.familycar.com/CLASSROOM/ignition.htm

[dbarker]

oh so they don't move very much? i may just not be able to see them moving then. I have to crank with the key cause I'm by myself.

I will say that the amount of spark from the HT coil wire was very little. I expected much more. I may also not be able to see that from the cab door....

I'll have to wait awhile until I can get a buddy out here to help me. I would think at this point that since the point gap was right, and the points have no wear and tear on them that they probably work fine.

something i saw online showed bumping the rotor to make the points fire..... when i do this nothing happens.... thats why i think the points may not be opening.....

EDIT:

this video shows a spark test... i in no way shape or form see this amount of spark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyTvOhZH ... re=related

What im seeing is just barely anything at all compared to this. Any ideas?

[Dragon]

I would say so too. The points can be tested another way. Take number 8 wire if it reaches and lay it on the cowl and rape it down then try the starter.

.017 is stock on Ford V8s a matchbook cover works in a pinch.

[fordman]

does the rotor move at all? maybe the dist gear is stripped or the roll pin is twisted.

[Dragon]

You bump the starter with the cap off (and the coil wire not on the cap so you don't get cross fire) and watch it.

My truck does not throw that kind of spark. It will hit you from 2 inches away but it is a real thin line. Voltage jumps gaps and current does the work after it gets there.

That was a I6 and because the points are closed for a longer time the coil can really build up a charge. That old coil was about 12,000 volts with the longer charging time it had a fatter spark. Mine is a 42,000 volt coil and does not charge for as long a period. With the cap off and the rotor on you can bump the starter and that will tell you if the gear is stripped or the roll pin is sheared. Though I never had that happen except on a race car with real high oil pressure (chebies).

[dbarker]

rotor turns as it should. when the engine isnt turning over you can bump the rotor a small amount and it springs back to place like it should.

when cranking the engine the rotor spins 360 as long as the engine is turning.

I really really REALLY doubt the gear is stripped or anything.

[Orange Beezy]

I would have to agree to check to see if the dist.shaft is rotating when the engine turns over.Have you thought about putting a electronic ignition in it?

[Dragon]

yep the points need adjusted then Everything else passes tests.

[fordman]

so you say you cant really see the points open when it turns over. one though is that the upper points drive gear is worn down and needs to be replaced with a new dist. that will let the points not open far enough to get a good spark. its just ideas i am thinking about. i'm not saying it is this or is that. i am just putting ideas out there at what it might be.

[Dragon]

Oh and you were lucky when you used that pencil. The carbon in a pencil will conduct electricity real well. That was what old resistor core wires were made of. The carbon was pressed into cotton thread then later fiberglass to make the resistance in the spark plug wires. That is why plug wires need changed. Vibration and removing them to test and change plug breaks down the carbon path and the wire stops firing.

https://napaonline.com/Search/Detail.as ... 36+3999999 These are the wires I use. Cold or hot they are soft and flexible and

Stick that pencil in a plug or coil wire and you will see a real fat spark when the engine tries to fire that wire.

[dbarker]

Well thanks for your help everyone.

I know that the gears in the dizy arent stripped. the entire engine was checked out by a Ford mechanic in the summer of 98. The engine was running fine, and started up on the first spin every time.

It's only got 70,000 on it... its verified cause its been in the family since it was bought.

I'll just have to have a mechanic fix it. I don't know enough to do it, and you guys can't see it.

It's got to be something really simple that I'm not seeing or describing correctly. I'll just have someone who knows what they're doing mess with it. But there shouldnt have been any parts magically wear out over 13 years. the engine hasnt turned over the entire time so there can't possibly be any gear or cam wear.

Thanks again guys, you tried. I'll post back up whenever I get it going as to what was wrong.

[fordman]

i was refering the second post as the cam that runs the points not the bottom gear that runs off of the cam. the poitns cam can get worn down and not let the points open as far as they should adjustignt he poitns will get you so far. but if the cam the runs the points is worn down from wear it could need to be replaced later on if it runs badly.

[dbarker]

can a brand new set of points go out of adjustment in 13 years if they arent operated? the cam looks brand new no wear.....

when i opened the points manually i just barely got a spark, lets focus on what caused that. shouldnt the high tension wire from the coil deliver one heck of a bangin spark when its layed on the block?

ive seen better sparks come off a 3 yo with a balloon and high pile carpet.