Swap ideas, modular 4.6

[Cartman]

I've searched quite a bit and didn't see any threads other than carcraft22's sweet build mentioning doing a 4.6.. I want to do a forced induction build on my 71' camper special and after reading about the crown vic front end swap I've searched around and found a wrecked mercury marauder. It has a running DOHC 4.6 which after doing some research is the same as the Mustang SVT Cobra that was supercharged. I wouldn't go through all the trouble of sourcing a M112 and all of that, I was thinking that a procharger would be better.
I don't know if the N/A DOHC would have lower compression pistons or not either.

I read on here that the FE towers and mounts work with for a 302, but it puts the engine too far forward, I can relocate these no problem but I'm curious to know if the 302 mounts will work with a modern 4.6. I have done EFI swaps (put GM TBI on my ford 300 inline) and am a decent fabricator so that isn't a big deal. I want to swap to something with an engine with a large aftermarket following and easy/proven forced induction and large horsepower.

Other option would be a healthy 460, but I want EFI. Since the marauder is only 2K and is complete, I could kill 2 birds with 1 stone and buy the whole car and have the entire harness, engine, transmission and front end and then scrap the rest.

What kind of transmission options? Well, I can't stand automatics and I'm thinking that a ZF 5 speed would work. They can be had from pickups with the 5.4 and V10. I don't know how rare one is in 2wd form though...

What do you guys think?

[dustman_stx]

Don't know much about the mod motors, but I'm thinking they had a lot of trouble getting it to work in the carcraft article. I don't think it's plug and play like an LS1 or LT1, etc. Good luck.

[ForingaMex]

Sorry to change the subject here a litte, but I have been thinking about putting the GM TBI on my 390. Can you tell me, and there might be others interested in doing the same, what needs to be done. I would realy appreciate that.
What your'e trying to do sounds interesting, I'll keep watching to see how you make out. All the best and keep us posted.
Jake

[ToughOldFord]

Other option would be a healthy 460, but I want EFI.

You can get a 460 with fuel injection.

[KF100TK]

I don't know how the motor will sit for location but 4.6 mounts onto the cownvic crossmember.

[OldRedFord]

Would this 4.6 have the electronic gas pedal, or is it cable?

Engine mounts would have to be fabricated I do believe.

The 4.6 is not the same size as a 302. Its closer to a 460 in physical size width wise.


If it was me I would find a fuel injected 460, mount towers out of a mid 70s two wheel drive F100 or F250. Be as close as a bolt in as you can get.

[knightfire83]

I'm looking at it for my 360. the biggest thing is the distributor. Right now its looking like if I do it I will need to take a chevy distributor and an FE shaft, machine them so they fit together and weld it, after that build a custom shaft for it. .

I have an experience that may help you:

I swapped ignitions on a 350 in a 89 Chevy pickup from stock to MSD 6A and a blaster 2 coil. It had TBI, I took out the completely computer controlled dizzy and installed a standard HEI version with vacuum and centrifugal advance.

All the ECM wanted was a tach signal from the MSD box to run the fuel injection system. So I tapped the wire leading to my aftermarket tach from the MSD box and wired it to the GM factory distributor connector (where the computer originally got it's distributor reference signal.) Worked perfect, didn't even get a check engine light.

Now in your case, you have 3 options for your transplanted 360 GM fuel injection:
1. Fabricate a custom dizzy as you described. (not really needed)
2. Feed the ECM the tach signal from a MSD ignition box or possibly off the Duraspark system.*
3. Run the original TBI distributor ignition module off a duraspark dizzy with the vacuum advance removed. **

* I don't know if the ECM will accept a tach signal off the negative side of the coil or not, as in the duraspark system. I would think that it should work.
** The GM ignition module uses the distributor mounting base as a heat sink. If you run it off a duraspark dizzy you will have to mount the module to a large metal heat sink, or it will fry.

This may help out:

-The same computer used on this truck was used from 1986-89.

-On GM TBI system distributors, one connector is for the computer controlled spark system, and the other is your standard power and tach. I believe the distributor reference (tach) wire is Purple/Wht.

-The HEI and Duraspark distributors put out the same signal from the magnetic pickup. So you can run a HEI dizzy with a duraspark box, or you can run a HEI module off a duraspark dizzy.

[Cartman]

EFI 460s are complete toads and converting a mustang computer over to a 460 is a PITA due to the 302/351 having a different firing order.

However, I've been rethinking this and I think a 460 with aluminum heads and a homebrew twin turbo should make around 600hp on pump gas. I don't really need EFI as this is just going to be a toy, not a DD. Resale value on the engine if I decide to get the marauder is very good, you can get over 1K easy for a complete engine.

For the TBI conversion - I read lots of articles on IHmud and Pirate4x4. I hacked apart a stock harness, ditched the VSS, retained my duraspark dizzy and interfaced with the 7 pin GM ignition module. Set timing at 0* since the computer is controlling the timing and I haven't had to do much else. Future plan would be to have a custom chip burned, I have done lots of data logs and it is a bit rich but it works good enough to take 2 tracking and stuff. I used a 305 throttle body because the injectors are the right size for my engine (300 inline) and ended up using an ECM and wiring harness from an astro van with a 4.3. Fuel pump used as an inline ford style (frame mount, uber common)

[OldRedFord]

EFI 460s are complete toads and converting a mustang computer over to a 460 is a PITA due to the 302/351 having a different firing order.

However, I've been rethinking this and I think a 460 with aluminum heads and a homebrew twin turbo should make around 600hp on pump gas. I don't really need EFI as this is just going to be a toy, not a DD. Resale value on the engine if I decide to get the marauder is very good, you can get over 1K easy for a complete engine.

For the TBI conversion - I read lots of articles on IHmud and Pirate4x4. I hacked apart a stock harness, ditched the VSS, retained my duraspark dizzy and interfaced with the 7 pin GM ignition module. Set timing at 0* since the computer is controlling the timing and I haven't had to do much else. Future plan would be to have a custom chip burned, I have done lots of data logs and it is a bit rich but it works good enough to take 2 tracking and stuff. I used a 305 throttle body because the injectors are the right size for my engine (300 inline) and ended up using an ECM and wiring harness from an astro van with a 4.3. Fuel pump used as an inline ford style (frame mount, uber common)

Why would you need a Mustang computer if you went 460? Just use the computer for the vehicle that had the 460? Or am I missing something.

If you want to go the 460 route. I wonder how hard a Megasquirt injection system would be.

[Ranchero50]

Personally I don't understand the logic of using a TBI setup on anything that was factory supported with a log intake setup unless you want it to look stock.

On the 4.6 all is good if you have the parts, but since that stuff is still so new it's expensive for what you get. Even Procharging the 4.6 is going to need a chip etc to run right where as a basic roller 351 with an A trim vortech with a mass air mustang puter and a small block ZF would have the same power for possibly half the cost. I would love to have a '03 cobra drive line and saw a wrecked one on CL last year but it was too expensive to consider a swap.

Jamie

[cep62]

FWIW Edelbrock makes a carburetor conversion kit for the 4.6 , with the intake and wire harness.
I don't know how it work but it seems interesting.

[ak-1970-360]

If you wanted to run a new modular motor i would think that finding a wrecked Ford F150 with a 4.6 or 5.4 (for the extra cubes, i hear they like the forced induction just like the 4.6). Then you would have everything you need right there and with a little looking you could even find one with a ZF 5speed.

[speed bump]

I'm looking at it for my 360. the biggest thing is the distributor. Right now its looking like if I do it I will need to take a chevy distributor and an FE shaft, machine them so they fit together and weld it, after that build a custom shaft for it. .

I have an experience that may help you:

I swapped ignitions on a 350 in a 89 Chevy pickup from stock to MSD 6A and a blaster 2 coil. It had TBI, I took out the completely computer controlled dizzy and installed a standard HEI version with vacuum and centrifugal advance.

All the ECM wanted was a tach signal from the MSD box to run the fuel injection system. So I tapped the wire leading to my aftermarket tach from the MSD box and wired it to the GM factory distributor connector (where the computer originally got it's distributor reference signal.) Worked perfect, didn't even get a check engine light.

Now in your case, you have 3 options for your transplanted 360 GM fuel injection:
1. Fabricate a custom dizzy as you described. (not really needed)
2. Feed the ECM the tach signal from a MSD ignition box or possibly off the Duraspark system.*
3. Run the original TBI distributor ignition module off a duraspark dizzy with the vacuum advance removed. **

* I don't know if the ECM will accept a tach signal off the negative side of the coil or not, as in the duraspark system. I would think that it should work.
** The GM ignition module uses the distributor mounting base as a heat sink. If you run it off a duraspark dizzy you will have to mount the module to a large metal heat sink, or it will fry.

This may help out:

-The same computer used on this truck was used from 1986-89.

-On GM TBI system distributors, one connector is for the computer controlled spark system, and the other is your standard power and tach. I believe the distributor reference (tach) wire is Purple/Wht.

-The HEI and Duraspark distributors put out the same signal from the magnetic pickup. So you can run a HEI dizzy with a duraspark box, or you can run a HEI module off a duraspark dizzy.

Yeah but part of the magic of the computer controlled system is the spark control, you can live without out it and I might still wait on the dizzy but thats where a lot of the power comes from. If I do end up doing an FE swap I will post a build up thread but it probably wont be for a couple of months.