Could I ask for advice on the March multi-groove pulley kit?

[70_F100]

Serpentine does NOT refer to the type belt.

Serpentine refers to the CONFIGURATION of the belts and pulleys.

Think "SNAKE". "Serpentine" means "snake-like". A serpentine setup will "snake" itself around a group of pulleys, hence the name.

[robroy]

Hi Convincor, thanks for replying!

right. just because it doesn't have five or more pulleys doesn't mean it's not a serpentine . It is a 6-groove serpentine belt.

OK, got it, thanks!

As for the pulley coming off yours, just needs persuasion. It's a interference fit.

OK! Thanks. I'll put a puller on it then to yank it off--I can't see any other way to smash at it in a gentle way.

I understand that since there aren't many accessories to drive on the FE, this serpentine setup is overkill. And I also recognize that the factory setup works just fine. Yet when it compare the cost of putting a beautiful finish on my old parts to the cost of the kit ($370), it doesn't look like such a bad deal. And even if it's only a little more reliable, I like reliability.

I also like the way the March kit would allow me to adjust the belt tension with a threaded rod, instead of the classic, pry-on-the-alternator technique.

Thanks very much for the excellent replies!
Robroy

[convincor]

just because it doesn't do as you think it should, It's still a serpentine belt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpentine_belt

[robroy]

Serpentine refers to the CONFIGURATION of the belts and pulleys.

Think "SNAKE". "Serpentine" means "snake-like". A serpentine setup will "snake" itself around a group of pulleys, hence the name.

Hey 70_F100, thanks for clarifying this!

I see what you mean! Yet I suppose the benefits of this setup (meaning, a more reliable belt for the alternator and water pump) are the same whether or not the setup's used in this Serpentine configuration.

Isn't it true though, that if I walked in to the parts store, the parts guy would call that a "serpentine belt?" I figure that's just what folks call belts that are often used in serpentine configurations.

Thanks very much 70_F100!
Robroy

[70_F100]

Robroy, Parts guys aren't always the smartest guys on earth.

I went in an auto parts store a couple of months ago and asked for a condenser for my truck. The kid freaked when I told him it went into the distributor and not in front of the radiator!!!

Convincor, no disrespect, but when I saw your post, I automatically assumed (and you know what happens when you do that) that it was someone else who has a habit of arguing with any kind of logic and/or experience. I should have looked at the poster's name. I had already checked that same link, and it really doesn't define it well. Check this one: http://autorepair.about.com/cs/generali ... f_728a.htm It even provides a good illustration.

If you check the belt manufacturers' websites, belts with multiple ribs (for multi-groove pulleys) are called "multi-rib", "Micro-V", and other similar descriptive terms. Belts for single-groove pulleys are called "V-Belts". In theory, you could use a V-belt on a serpentine system, even though it wouldn't be as effective.

[robroy]

Hey 70_F100, thanks for replying!

I hear what you're saying about the technical meaning of "serpentine!" Yet I really like the looks of this thing and I think if I avoided installing it, I'd regret it later on. Its looks are very nice and if it's a little more reliable, then heck, that's nice too! And it's so visible, being right out in front of the engine like that.

I'll post more photos as I make progress! Thanks very much for all the great replies!
Robroy

[robroy]

As for the pulley coming off yours, just needs persuasion. It's a interference fit.

Hey Convincor, thanks for your advice on this. With some new confidence that I wasn't pulling on a immovable object, it came off with a little persuasion, just like you said. Thanks!

Here's what the harmonic balancer looks like under the pulley.




And here's what the back side of the pulley looks like.



So do these parts look just like the factory ones, or are they different? I noted the raised areas on the balancer and the back of the pulley--I'm not sure if the factory units were shaped like that or not.

My reason for asking is that I'm not 100% sure that the March kit will bolt to this balancer and work, since it's not a factory balancer.

Thanks very much for the superb advice,
Robroy

[robroy]

The parts arrived and are truly excellent! The swap is going well so far. The only issue so far is that the balancer pulley needs to be spaced out about 1/8". I think March has spacers for that--I'll find out on Monday.

The new belt:




The way it arrived:




Everything was packed so NEATLY.



The water pump pulley:





The crankshaft pulley:





The pulleys placed on the engine (not installed for the final time quite yet).




The quality of this stuff is outstanding.



Here's the adjuster for the alternator (belt tension). It looks like a part of the space shuttle! Some serious time and effort went in to designing and making this kit.



And here's the first significant problem! The crankshaft pulley is about 1/8" shy of the water pump pulley. I'll need to space it out.



Robroy

[robroy]

March recommended a crankshaft pulley spacer kit, similar to this one:



They first recommended the Moroso 64031 since they'd heard from another FE customer that it worked for them. But Moroso says that the 64031 works only with Chevy motors.

Then they recommended that I call Ford Racing. Ford Racing recommended Total Performance at (586) 468-3710, so that's who I'm trying to get in touch with now. Hopefully they'll have a 1/8" spacer; lots of the spacers I've seen (and the ones Ford Racing has for the 302 family) are a lot thicker than that.

Robroy

[robroy]

Dave/David at Total Performance recommended using a solid pinion preload sleeve from a Ford 9" rear end to space the balancer out 1/8" on the crankshaft, but I'm not sure that's a good idea. I'm sure the balancer is located on the crankshaft at a position that's by design, and I wouldn't want to find out what would happen if it were 1/8" out! Maybe nothing, but I'm not sure about that.

I called Doug at March back with this information, and he checked it out with the March engineers. After hearing all of this they recommended using some 3/8 washers on the bolts as they pass between the pulley and the balancer. These are 100 thousandths thick so they should space it out around 1/8".

The March engineer said that they usually don't recommend using washers for spacing the pulley out, but to move it out only 1/8" it shouldn't be a problem. The spacers they do make for crankshaft pulleys are all much thicker than this, like 3/4" thick or more.

What do ya'll think about spacing that out using washers? Is that a bad idea or no big deal?

Thanks very much!
Robroy

[robroy]

Hey 70_F100, thanks for your great reply!

I think you're right! I guess washers vary a lot.

You know what I did though, is ordered a set of 1/8" shims from McMaster. They're made of 316 stainless and are guaranteed to be within a thousandth of an inch of 1/8" thick. They're part 97022A228.

With the shims adding a lot more trustworthiness to the washer idea, do you think it's a pretty safe bet then?

I know that having a shop make the spacer might be the best option, but I'm not sure if it would be worth the extra time and money as compared to using these machine shims.

Thanks very much for your experienced advice 70_F100!!!
Robroy

[70_F100]

If it's something you feel comfortable with, I say go with it.

I will say, though, that I checked the McMaster-Carr website, and the thickness tolerance is +.007" to -.013", not .001". That gives you a total tolerance of .020". Here's the link: http://www.mcmaster.com/#97022a228/=3mqdvp

The ID tolerance is .011". The only "tight" tolerance is for OD, which is +/-.002", and who cares about that dimension? So, if you're on the lower end of the tolerance, you could have a shim that is 0.112" thick, .325" ID and .623" OD. On the high end, you could have .132" thick, .336" ID and .627" OD.

Does this support my previous post? You BET it does!!

[robroy]

Hey 70_F100! Thanks very much for your excellent reply!

You are right! Now, looking back, I have no idea how I came up with that one thousandth figure. I must have been reading something wrong, or maybe my brain was seeing what it wanted to see.

Yeah maybe it is best to just have the part made. I'll ask a local shop about making the part and see what their estimate is.

Thanks again 70_F100,
Robroy

[robroy]

Hey 70_F100, thanks for your great advice here.

I went to Valley Fabrication in Salinas, California with my pulley, and they said that they'd make my 1/8" spacer out of aluminum, make certain it's ultra flat, and balance it for $85. So I went for it!

This way I'll have a more solid feeling about it than if I'd used the washers or shim washers.

I'll post photos as it goes together over the next few days.

Thanks again 70_F100!
Robroy

[DuckRyder]

I think you made the right decision (if what I think matters to you)