'72 F100 'Shop Truck Special' -- WRECKED :(

Engine, ignition, fuel, cooling, exhaust

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reflectionpoint
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'72 F100 'Shop Truck Special' -- WRECKED :(

Post by reflectionpoint »

Hey all, great forum here with a lot of useful information. I'm glad I joined. This is my first post.. so pardon me for the dang newbie questions and such. I hope to become another useful member of the community and contribute from my skillset. Though I'm young (mid twenties) I have a great love of all things old and good. I have worked in retail electronics for 5 years and also retail tires/wheels for 2 years. I can help with some electrical (mostly devices, stereos, amps, etc. and aftermarket wiring) and also with tire sizing, wheel offset, load range, tread type and most questions to do with tires. If I don't know something about tires/wheels I work with a guru who has been in the industry for over 23 years.. so I can find out! haha.

Now onto my truck! I have recently come into possession of a fairly straight 1972 F100 Ranger XLT LWB RWD with the 390FE, C6 automatic and 3.50 ratio open diff. A good friend of mine has owned the truck for a couple years and let's just say his current '96 Legacy Wagon EFI is a MUCH better fit for him than this truck was. He neglected the truck and did only oil changes for two years until he rear ended someone because the master cyl had failed a couple months before and he didn't have it fixed.. it sat for 4 months when he called me up and told me he had received a ticket for it sitting on the street and wanted to know if I'd tow it off for him.

Image

DUH!

So yes, I am way ahead on cost for this truck, I felt bad so I bought him a set of tires for his Subaru (~$200) and he signed the title over.

After inspecting the truck I replaced the radiator (damaged in the wreck) and it started with a 'jump'. Since then I have performed this work to it:

New Radiator & Hoses
Swapped out the 2bbl Holley for a 4bbl Edelbrock 650 I already had (holley needs rebuilt badly, but it worked--sort of)
New Belts
New Cap, Rotor, Motorcraft Plugs
MSD Coil (still have the stock one)
Power Steering Pump
Brake Master Cyl & Reservoir
Front Brake Wheel Cyls
New fuel lines and inline fuel filter from all 3 gas tanks (one in-cab, two bedside) into the main hardline running into the engine.
Valve Cover Gaskets
Right Side Header Gasket
New tires and powder coated the old farmer white spokes.

Image
~$1000 invested to date, most of that is tires and having the wheels powder coated

Basically.. maintenance.

I should mention that this truck has either Hooker Headers or Crager Headers (based on stickers on the vehicle) and farmer duals out back(fully divorced,quiet mufflers, 2" diameter side exit).

Now after that long editorial I come to my questions... some of which I already have answers to but like to hear things twice, sometimes you get a different opinion that leads you in a different direction.

This truck will be used for general transportation, also as a shop truck, loaded with tools, will have an on-board compressor and tank, maybe a hoist in the bed too for engines, rear ends, etc. FUNCTIONAL.. useful. It will also see some action towing with a car dolly and a flatbed car hauler. In addition to that, I live at ~6800 ft elevation, we experience an approx. 25% HP drop compared to sea level, so stouter the better.. haha.. who DOESN'T want more anyways?

I want to build the 390 and C6 to handle this type of work.. and still be able to mess with the 16yr olds with 150k mile honda's with fart cans and 75 shot of nos. I have read a lot about turning the 390 into a 428 or even bigger (survival's 445 kit comes to mind). I'm not sure I want to go that route.. yet. I'm still young and raising a family so I don't have tons of money to drop all at once. The truck is a secondary vehicle so if it's out of commission it's ok, I don't need to keep it on the road during certain stages of the build. My question for the engine revolves around.. what type of power am I capable of producing without boring and stroking.. ie. heads(maybe), intake and cam. Or.. would it be better to stroke it but use stock heads with a little machining so they flow better with aftermarket intake?

IN THE END.. I want to have one of the super-stout trucks I've read about here and elsewhere running 500+ ft lbs etc.. but I'd like to do it incrementally over the next couple years to offset costs. I will be locking the rear end (detroit or similar) and building the transmission.. So anything I do I don't want to have to redo or replace at a later stage if possible. If I end up doing new heads but have to machine them later with new valves, so be it.. but I don't want to do the heads twice.. if that makes sense. Also I'll be upgrading/overhauling the brakes and suspension during all this but the tech articles here have that pretty well covered so no questions yet.-

Ok.. that is WAY to much for one post so I'll keep the transmission questions for LATER..

-~Eric
Last edited by reflectionpoint on Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Life's a beach.. then you get swimming lessons.
--'72 F102 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, C6, 3.50 Open 9", Current Project.
--'63 F350 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, T18, 5.13 Open D70, future car-hauler.
--'94 Explorer Limited, 4x4, 4.0 Cologne, Auto, 3.73 LS 8.8", Kid Hauler
--'93 Dodge LWB, 4x4, 12v Cummins, Manual, 4.10 Open D60/D70, Newest member. :-)
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Re: '72 F100 'Shop Truck Special'

Post by 19674x4 »

sounds like a good plan to me. but to me the words "c6" and "Shop Truck" dont go together
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Re: '72 F100 'Shop Truck Special'

Post by averagef250 »

Welcome to FORDification! Looks like a decent F-100 you picked up and the price was definitely right.

FE's are good engines, they definitely hold their own in a truck. My opinion is an FE is excellent in a truck within the limitations of stock parts and affordable aftermarket stuff. In a truck, a 390 shines below 4500 RPM. Build it to make power above that and while you'll be able to walk away from the VTEC croud in your hay hauler your hay hauler will no longer haul anything. My seat of pants dyno puts a very well assembled truck 390 with 9:1 cr, Crane 901 4500 RPM cam, iron intake, 600 carb, small port heads, good ignition and headers at a very reliable 375 HP and 450 lb/ft. You can tow 15K pounds up 10% grade with that and it will last 150K miles with good maintainence.

If you want more power than that (375 big block HP is a considerable amount of power, it equates 900 HP for those 400 HP VTEC kids) and don't have a need to open your wallet and shake it at the engine, go with something other than FE.

A 460 is a good choice and worth the effort and expense of converting your truck over from FE if you really feel you need over 400 HP and you do your homework on 460's and don't just think they're all the same, anything built after the very early 70's is emissions riddled crap. An early 460 or 429 with an internal balance 460 crank is a good starting point for 400-450 HP spinning the engine under 5500 and the 460 cubes will let you do this, run a stock stall converter and tow decent loads.

If you want to do the same thing, spend less money and get 2-3 times the mileage swap in a Cummins and a 47RH.
1970 F-250 4x4 original Willock swivel frame chassis '93 5.9 Cummins/Getrag/NP205/HP60/D70
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Re: '72 F100 'Shop Truck Special'

Post by reflectionpoint »

19674x4 wrote:the words "c6" and "Shop Truck" dont go together
Well I'm not sure what you mean by that. As far as automatics go the c6 is one of the stouter ford autos. I don't intend to run it stock with the added power and weight, thus my next phase of questioning which I haven't gotten to regarding building that transmission. I've looked into an AOD or 700r4 swap, among others. In the end I figure if this transmission has been used in f100's, f250's and all sorts other vehicles for many years, why not just build it? I'm open to suggestions.. don't get me wrong. I just don't intend to swap to a manual transmission because it's 'better'. I prefer a manual and have manuals in other vehicles I own, but not on this truck. This isn't a 3/4 ton, won't be worked like a 3/4 ton, so why not have a 'luxury option'.. haha.

-~Eric
Life's a beach.. then you get swimming lessons.
--'72 F102 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, C6, 3.50 Open 9", Current Project.
--'63 F350 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, T18, 5.13 Open D70, future car-hauler.
--'94 Explorer Limited, 4x4, 4.0 Cologne, Auto, 3.73 LS 8.8", Kid Hauler
--'93 Dodge LWB, 4x4, 12v Cummins, Manual, 4.10 Open D60/D70, Newest member. :-)
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Re: '72 F100 'Shop Truck Special'

Post by averagef250 »

The C6 will take anything you can throw at it with a 400HP big block. Put new drum seals and a transgo kit in and run it as hard as you want empty. Load it down with some weight and it'll die a quick death like any other auto.
1970 F-250 4x4 original Willock swivel frame chassis '93 5.9 Cummins/Getrag/NP205/HP60/D70
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Re: '72 F100 'Shop Truck Special'

Post by reflectionpoint »

averagef250 wrote: If you want to do the same thing, spend less money and get 2-3 times the mileage swap in a Cummins and a 47RH.
I've seen a '79 F250 low boy RWD with a 5.9l Cummins and an 03 Duracrap rear end installed.. stout stout truck.. why not just buy a 98 Ram 2500?

I am all about making the most with what's available.. I have access to Cummins all around me, I live in OIL country out here and there are trucks rolled and beaten everywhere with strong running engines still in them. But they're just not 'old power'.. I have a great respect for them and maybe in another build I'd do that.. but this one, I'd really like to stick with the FE, just seems.. cooler. hahaha.

I don't care if I don't outrun all the dumb kids, that's what my rice burning turbo charged nissan 240sx is for.. VTEC kids fear me in that.. but it's also awesome to hear a big block come alive next to you and leave you in a cloud of barely-burnt gas.

You do bring up a good point, brute power and reliability trump speed.. for this build.

Thanks,

-~Eric
Life's a beach.. then you get swimming lessons.
--'72 F102 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, C6, 3.50 Open 9", Current Project.
--'63 F350 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, T18, 5.13 Open D70, future car-hauler.
--'94 Explorer Limited, 4x4, 4.0 Cologne, Auto, 3.73 LS 8.8", Kid Hauler
--'93 Dodge LWB, 4x4, 12v Cummins, Manual, 4.10 Open D60/D70, Newest member. :-)
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Re: '72 F100 'Shop Truck Special'

Post by reflectionpoint »

I guess I'm just being romantic. These are good suggestions but this truck has lived 37 years (in june) as it is. I'd like to enhance it.. not hack it up. If it were a hot rod truck, I would already have a cummins or 572 or some other enormous nasty snot breathing dragon it it. But it's not.. it's just gonna be a small town parts getter that occasionally drags a car here or there. I think I need to retract that '500 ft lb monster' comment. AverageF250 makes a good point in saying mid-400's would be more than enough for something of this demeanor.. so I want to aim in that direction.

Thanks for helping me to be clear on what I want, not what I dream of.. everybody wants 'IT ALL'.. some of us just aren't bright enough to realize what that entails.

-~Eric
Life's a beach.. then you get swimming lessons.
--'72 F102 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, C6, 3.50 Open 9", Current Project.
--'63 F350 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, T18, 5.13 Open D70, future car-hauler.
--'94 Explorer Limited, 4x4, 4.0 Cologne, Auto, 3.73 LS 8.8", Kid Hauler
--'93 Dodge LWB, 4x4, 12v Cummins, Manual, 4.10 Open D60/D70, Newest member. :-)
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Re: '72 F100 'Shop Truck Special'

Post by reflectionpoint »

Newbie question in 3.. 2.. 1.. Define ED heads please?

I love the engines, the trucks are okish.. I definately understand what you mean there. I've been reading your thread on the 4BT, definitely sounds nice.. makes me want to find ANOTHER truck, probably f250/f350 4x4 to put a tow bed on and either a build 4bt or the 6bt.. now THAT would be a truck to be reckoned with.. mm why'd you have to start me thinkin' about that? haha.

I'm willing to scrounge for parts at junk yards, and online, and wherever else.. I'm just trying to get an idea what parts I need. In the meantime I am fixing other issues (3G Alt swap is happening sunday morning). I know there will be a lot of speculation and opinions but I know somewhere in there I will find my recipe. My idea is to stay under $3500-5000 on the engine, so I have money for the other projects for the truck (disc brakes in the front, locker, yada yada). . this is doable, I've seen people who've done it.. I just need direction on how to get there! haha.

-~Eric
Life's a beach.. then you get swimming lessons.
--'72 F102 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, C6, 3.50 Open 9", Current Project.
--'63 F350 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, T18, 5.13 Open D70, future car-hauler.
--'94 Explorer Limited, 4x4, 4.0 Cologne, Auto, 3.73 LS 8.8", Kid Hauler
--'93 Dodge LWB, 4x4, 12v Cummins, Manual, 4.10 Open D60/D70, Newest member. :-)
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Re: '72 F100 'Shop Truck Special'

Post by reflectionpoint »

averagef250 wrote:Before you realize it you're daily driving it and have 5 of the darn things and know every nut and bolt in the whole truck.
I already know half the bolts on the engine.. it's nice to know I could take most everything apart with a hand full of wrenches.. lol. I do have the bug, just after the little bit of work I have done. I got it with the idea of 'get it running decent and turn it'.. now I'm way past that and looking into getting the R/F damage repaired and rhino lining the bed and so on and so on. My wife is P1$$ED.. moreso than she was when I got the motorcycle.. I told her, hey, at least if we wreck this into a bar ditch at 40 you won't get road rash and a broken bone (already done that on the bike).

Well I'm going to start my wishlist based on the little bit of stuff discussed here and go from there.

-~Eric
Life's a beach.. then you get swimming lessons.
--'72 F102 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, C6, 3.50 Open 9", Current Project.
--'63 F350 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, T18, 5.13 Open D70, future car-hauler.
--'94 Explorer Limited, 4x4, 4.0 Cologne, Auto, 3.73 LS 8.8", Kid Hauler
--'93 Dodge LWB, 4x4, 12v Cummins, Manual, 4.10 Open D60/D70, Newest member. :-)
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Re: '72 F100 'Shop Truck Special'

Post by fomocoguy »

Welcome to the site! If your willing to put that kinda change into the engine, if I were you I'd find a running 390 for a couple hundred bucks and build off that. Put it on a stand and do it to it, then when your ready swap it out! That's what I intend to do with mine. :2cents:
Joe

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1964 Chrysler New Yorker Town and Country wagon
2006 Dodge Ram 2500 cummins
2005 Ford Ranger
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Re: '72 F100 'Shop Truck Special'

Post by two-bit »

I agree with Average about the 390 and the C-6 for a "shop truck".
I have a built 390 that i have run for years. SUPER dependable, great low end grunt, always had a 4 speed behind it.

Personally i hate slush boxes, messy to maintain, rob to much drivetrain power to transfer it, leaky, and they don't work worth a crap for down shifting.
I will never run any auto trans i my trucks, i don't trust them, i have seen far to many of them fail at critical times, leaving the owner in a bad way.
The older four speeds that hook up to an FE are pretty damn stout. I've got an old T-18 that has over 300K on it and it still works. I've got an NP-435 in my F-350 and i LOVE that trans. Very stout, easy to shift, great gear ratios for what i need.
Bonus on the four speeds, they have PTO covers. Use PTO power to operate your compressor and that rear hoist :thup:

I know people like auto's for ease of driveability, get in, put it in gear, go. I think thats great for a car or your grocery getter. Not for your truck. I am very biased on this. I work at a truck shop and have seen thousands of bad slush boxes, very few bad sticks.

In the end, it is your truck, put it together how you want it, that's the most important thing.
If you wanted a "cookie-cutter" truck you could have just bought a C#@^y. :evil: :evil: :evil:

Two-bit
Living life full throttle on the North Coast of America!!!

72' F-350, DRW, 360, NP435, Dana 70, 159" WB, P.S., P.B., 12' flatbed, 10,000 GVW.
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Re: '72 F100 'Shop Truck Special'

Post by Ranchero50 »

Eric, welcome to the site. Best recommendation I can give you is enjoy the truck for a couple months and fix the little stuff. It'll give you time to figure out just what you like, what you don't like, and what you want to do with it. As I tell my customers, 'If you don't know where you're going you'll never get there'.

Make a plan and see if it fits this truck. Quite honestly I'd look for a decent body F-250 to use as a shop truck. Especially if you plan on putting a air compressor and engine hoist in the back and using it to tow loads. I'm with Dustin on the diesel conversion for a working truck. Better usable power and much better fuel economy even with the price difference. If you chose to keep the 390, leave it alone or go with a mild / stock rebuild. Not much sense in trying to race something with a load in the back.

Jamie
'70 F-350 CS Cummins 6BT 10klb truck 64k mile Bahama Blue

Contact me for CNC Dome Lamp Bezels and Ash Tray pulls.
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Re: '72 F100 'Shop Truck Special'

Post by reflectionpoint »

Ranchero50 wrote:Not much sense in trying to race something with a load in the back.
I appreciate all the positive feedback and direction.. after reading what I had of the forum before signing up I had assumed that might be the case (thus why I signed up). :fr:

I'm seriously considering finding a same-generation age F250-F350 for the heavier tasks.. I have a Cummins 12-valve in the garage now (got it two days ago from a 'friend in need'). I also have a full tow-bed available to me, what a combo would that be? An F350 crew cab with a hook on the back and a cummins under the hood? Now I just have to find the truck for it.. 4x4 would be even better.. :thup:

The reasoning behind my thoughts with this truck are simple. When I was growing up my step-dad (only real dad-figure I had) was a mechanic, auto, diesel, small engine, motorcycle.. whatever needed fixed he'd fix it. He was a Chevy guy. I know that's a curse word around here, but.. he never knocked a Ford, he just preferred something else. Always had a 3/4 ton van around with a SBC stroker in it, or a 1/2 ton pickup with the same.. that's I guess "what I know". In 1976 he was involved in a motorcycle accident where he lost one of his legs 6" below the hip.. so, though he could drive a stick, he obviously preferred ye olde slushbox. 700R4 was a household word, as was Corvette front pump a household phrase. More than once did I experience a behemeth van flat outrun a local kid who thought he was 'hot stuff'.

I hate stock slushboxes. I have an A4LD in my wife's 94 Exploder.. HATE IT. But, I've seen them work.. they are messy and rob power and fail. I doubt this'll ever see more than an engine block in the back or towing a derby car to the track. Let's just call this truck nostalgia on my part. There are better choices, but this is going to be sort of a 'tribute' truck, even if it is the 'wrong brand'.. just 'cause he had Cheap taste doesn't mean I have to!

-~Eric
Life's a beach.. then you get swimming lessons.
--'72 F102 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, C6, 3.50 Open 9", Current Project.
--'63 F350 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, T18, 5.13 Open D70, future car-hauler.
--'94 Explorer Limited, 4x4, 4.0 Cologne, Auto, 3.73 LS 8.8", Kid Hauler
--'93 Dodge LWB, 4x4, 12v Cummins, Manual, 4.10 Open D60/D70, Newest member. :-)
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Re: '72 F100 'Shop Truck Special'

Post by reflectionpoint »

Just a small update.

Shop Truck is getting fresh dual exhaust today, instead of the 1-7/8" pipes with clogged up mufflers it'll be 2-1/2" pipes with Flowmaster Delta 40's dumping in front of the rear axle. Also the 3G should be installed this morning (before going to the muffler shop) so I can finally throw the old regulator in the fire pit and be RID of it!

Also I picked up an ad at the grocery store that reads:

FOR SALE
Ford 390 engine, complete ready to assemble, including all new parts, gaskets + machine work.
$500.00


So I'll be calling on that and possibly picking it up next week if it checks out as good as it sounds.. Handwriting looks like an older guy so I'm pretty confident it's not some kid who hacked up his engine and is now trying to off it on someone else.. but I'll just have to check it out regardless.

Also I've been looking into a combination I found on another site, using Edelbrock 350-2105 Intake & 350-2106 Cam. The 'dyno' chart they show with it looks good, if it can be believed and isn't just hype.. they don't mention using aftermarket heads, just those two parts and the headers I already have.

http://www.jegs.com/pdfs/350-2106.pdf
Cam Stats:
Duration Advertised 272° Intake/282° Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' 194° Intake/204° Exhaust
Lift @ Valve .460'' Intake/.480'' Exhaust
Lift @ Cam .265'' Intake/.280'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle 110°
Intake Centerline 105°
Intake Timing @ .050" Open 8° ATDC Close 22° ABDC
Exhaust Timing @ .050" Open 37° BBDC Close 13° BTDC


Just looking for feedback, making sure I'm headed in the right direction.. also would I need to think about valve springs with that cam?

-~Eric
Life's a beach.. then you get swimming lessons.
--'72 F102 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, C6, 3.50 Open 9", Current Project.
--'63 F350 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, T18, 5.13 Open D70, future car-hauler.
--'94 Explorer Limited, 4x4, 4.0 Cologne, Auto, 3.73 LS 8.8", Kid Hauler
--'93 Dodge LWB, 4x4, 12v Cummins, Manual, 4.10 Open D60/D70, Newest member. :-)
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Totalled? :(

Post by reflectionpoint »

Well, last Friday night my '72 was parked on a city street and struck by a drunk driver. The guy was traveling at a high rate of speed (about double the 25mph limit) in his '07 Mazda6 and hit the truck in the rear. He then drove off and was arrested about 2 blocks away where his car quit on him. His car is definitely totaled just from the body damage, not to mention the blown engine. There is a large pool of coolant and oil visible in the picture.. the fluid trail led all the way to where the car quit running. The driver's statement when asked how his car got damaged was "I hit something, I think it was a parked car." My truck, parked, with the transmission in Park, was pushed 4 feet by a car that weighs about 2/3rds of what my truck weighs. That is one HECK of a hit! I am fortunate to have not been in the truck, and no one else was nearby. The drunk was not seriously injured.

Image

The 16ga steel bumper was both bent, and the mounting bolts sheared off at the frame, it was hanging on the ground by it's wiring. The bed impacted the cab, denting it and chipping the paint. The doors are 'sprung' (correct term?) and are no longer flush with the rest of the body.. the fenders and hood don't line up anymore either. I found two spots in the frame that look bent slightly. One behind the rear axle (not really a big deal) the second is where the frame steps down under the cab at the transmission cross-member if I recall correctly. In the rear the frame took the brunt of the impact and dispersed it through the frame, instead of the bed taking the damage. For instance, the tailgate still works--but the drivers door sticks a little now.

The truck is at the body shop now awaiting an inspection and estimate. I'm assuming the insurance company will want to 'total' the truck because of the damage.. but only time will tell. The lady that works at the body shop said "because it isn't restored they'll likely try to get out of paying 'classic' value for it and try to offer you essentially nothing for an old truck". :nono:

It's kind of a sad day. The truck is still usable and I'm pretty sure drivable... but it's hurt pretty bad (even though there isn't any huge visible body damage all the little things add up. I suppose if they give me a reasonable offer considering the time and money I've invested so far I'll keep the truck and, if nothing else, have an entire, and very complete parts truck. *sigh*

I have lost both friends and family to drinking and driving. Now I've lost a truck to it. Do not drink and drive. Set aside your pride and call someone. :2cents:

:(

-~Eric
Life's a beach.. then you get swimming lessons.
--'72 F102 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, C6, 3.50 Open 9", Current Project.
--'63 F350 LWB, RWD, 390 FE, T18, 5.13 Open D70, future car-hauler.
--'94 Explorer Limited, 4x4, 4.0 Cologne, Auto, 3.73 LS 8.8", Kid Hauler
--'93 Dodge LWB, 4x4, 12v Cummins, Manual, 4.10 Open D60/D70, Newest member. :-)
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