Lacking Power Update

[DGrant09]

Last year about this time I was working an issue with a lack of power and an engine ping when the engine is loaded. We ran through a lot of ideas and about the time I started to apply several suggestions we had the house fire. The truck has sat for most of the time since, but I think we cracked a few problems. One was an incorrect distributor. I was sold a dual advance set up vs. the single advance. Second was the vacuum source was pulling advance at an idle (manifold vacuum I believe off of the carb base), we switch it to the port vacuum (directly behind the front bowl adjustment, Holley 4160 carb) and here's the timing numbers as of this evening. With vacuum unplugged - 7 degrees at 600 RPM, this advances to about 19 degrees at 2,000 RPM. With vacuum applied we had 7 degrees at idle and about 38 degrees at 2,000 RPM. Does this sound better? I may run the timing to 8-10 degrees at idle without vacuum applied as suggested. The truck sounds better, I wish I could take it out but the roads are a mess, snow and freezing rain.
We also spent time on the carb, re-adjusted the floats and the idle mixtures, then I began running premium (90 octane here) with some octane boost mixed in. This helped clean up some of the black soot that was coming out of the exhaust and ruining the plugs. About the only time I get I get it now is when the choke is on and idling high. There's another small issue on the carb and I'll probably run it down to the carb shop for that one.
I do want to replace the timing chain and get the cam dialed in. I will start a new thread for this and questions on installing a street master intake.
Thanks to everyone for the input in that thread and other threads reference timing and adjustments! When the weather permits we'll try it out with a trailer and see how she does.

[fordman]

black soot means the engine is running too rich and dumping too much fuel into the engine.

[DGrant09]

Here's what they were looking like (the gray on the threads is anti-seize compound).

Plugs.JPG

Now they are more of a dark brick or a brown color.

I still get the carbon out of the exhaust during the warm up but once it is warm it stops.

[Dragon]

Oh that is so fouled. Blown power valve or warped flanges in a Holley but on an Autolite then power valve, float level too high or loose main jets or needle seat.

[DGrant09]

I think we got the mixture fixed. New plugs adjusted the floats, mixture and idle. They are more of a brown color these days.

I took the truck out this afternoon, set the timing at 10 degrees, vacuum unplugged and capped off. I had a slight ping during acceleration at about 45-50 and 2200 RPM while pulling a 2200 lb trailer. I may run the timing to 8 degrees and see how it runs. Still a little disappointed with the pull on hills.

[Dragon]

Ping is not good back off the timing or try premium.

[DGrant09]

We are running premium which is 90 octane here, plus I add a can of octane boost (really not sure if these work). Any who's, I'll back it to 8 degrees. I may even just replace the stock timing chain and gears with one I have from Summit and use a dial indicator on the cam when we re-install it. I did not use one when we put the engine together and I may have missed a tooth or two some where.
I read the directions on a dial indicator from Summit and I understood most of it. When they got to the lifters I was a little puzzled. I also have a manifold on it's way up here so I'll do it all at once..

[Dragon]

I bought an Edelbrock chain from Summit for my truck. One headache on almost every roller chain setup. The pin that locks the cam gear and fuel pump cam together is too short for the Fuel pump cam to lock it in place. If you don't get a longer pin or an electric fuel pump the cam will slip on the end of the cam and unbolt the cam gear retaining bolt.

The octane boosters work but not very much most will bump up 10 gallons like 1 to 2 octane numbers. When unleaded first came out I had a 300 lb Norton 750 Commando drag bike. 490 pounds with me, fuel and oil ready to run. Well it pinged on unleaded premium. I added Acetone to increase the fuels heat output and Acetone does not ping, ever. But backing my timing off 2 degrees killed the ping and the acetone more than made up for loss the timing reduction caused. Only disadvantage to the acetone it dissolves the plastic parts in the carbs.

Unless you race the cam dial in procedure is not worth the head ache. Cams are rated for lift at .050 lift so when Dialing in a cam you adjust the intake of #1 so it lifts .050 and then you check the degrees of the cam so see if it matches the spec in the cam data for it's position at .050 lift.

Ask anytime I used to do this for a living with 2 and 3 different FEs a year and sometimes a Chevy Rat or Chrysler Hemi for giggles.

[DGrant09]

I'll back it up to 8 degrees and give it a shot. As for the timing chain, we'll look at the pin sizes when I do the swap, the new set is from Summit but it is there name on the set vs. Edelbrock. I think it is there 35.00 single roller set. I bought it the first year we were in the house and I was broke! Damn, I still am!!
Should I skip the dial indicator when I do this? Is there another method I could use to verify TDC prior to installing the gears just to make sure their on? Once I used a compression tester, after several rotations I figured out which was the compression stroke and then stopped as the pressure peaked. Then the screw driver stunt which I think I'll skip on this engine. Hate to tear it up..
I would love to have the time and money to learn the building processes for racing and then watching all that work run through a track. That would be a nice retirement job!
Thanks for your input!

[DGrant09]

I finally have everything opened up. We placed the #1 cylinder at TDC, checked with the timing mark at 0 on the balancer, piston travel, rod positions and the distributor was point towards the #1 wire. The timing chain is tight on the drivers side and has about 1/4" play on the passengers side. The chain and gear set appears to be about the same quality as the spare set we have so I probably will not change that out. Placement of the timing gears looks fine, crankshaft gear is set at 0 and 12 o'clock position, and the camshaft gear has a o on it, 6 o'clock position, and that lines up with the crankshaft gear marking. I do not see anything out of place to cause an ignition ping when set at 10 degrees TDC timing. Ideas??

[Dragon]

The cam is aligned right. Have you ran a compression check?

My truck just developed a lack of power. I put a new air filter on it and the power dropped. The old one was so dirty you could not see the sun through it. That would have made my truck run richer so the new cleaner made it run lean. Well darn time to rejet.

I brought that up as an example that one thing can lead to another and the weirdest change in the engine is related to the strangest things.

Back the timing to 4 and see if the ping goes away. Just looking for the loss of ping right now.

[DGrant09]

While it is a part I'll be installing the manifold. One idea was to pull the cam while doing the manifold, and have the cam measured. When I bought the engine kit I just requested a stock kit with a RV cam. Needless to say my lack of knowledge then is not helping much now. Should I pull it or leave it as is? I'll try to have it together this weekend.. I can be slow, but we do get there!
I will be putting new filters and whatnot on it when we put it back together.. Just from sitting these still picked up a lot of dirt!

[Dragon]

If you are thinking a cam and you don't know what they out in you could have gotten a real generic imitation of a RV cam.

You want low rpm torque? I mean real low end power. Use the Crower Power Beast.16903 You put in new lifters and use stock everything else or what you already have and if you are not impressed by that cam I will send you $50.00 It is the Max RV cam you might say.

I had 2-68s using this cam one a Baja Racer and one street machine and both did 140 with Zoom 3.89 gears and 33 inch tall tires. 12 mpg cruising. At 12 mpg I could fill the truck with hay, cement, whatever and the street truck did not care. The racer would spin the sand tires in 4th during some races because of the extreme torque. The low end was so strong that I pulled a friends car and he swore I was punching the throttle when I was letting the clutch out at an idle.

POWER BEAST / PERFORMANCE LEVEL 3 - Delivers impressive midrange
and top end power. Healthy sound. Economical price.
RPM Power Range: 1200 to 3800 / Redline: 5200 plus.

You would be able to tow and tow.

That stock kit if it was for a late 60s car not a truck would have given you 10.25 to 1 pistons.

[DGrant09]

Looking at Summit this is what they are listing for those items. Is Summit about the best place? I can check with one local place and NAPA.

Crower 16903 - Crower Camshafts & Valvetrain
Crower 66016-16 - Crower Hydraulic Lifters

So in using these I would not have to worry about new cam bearings? How about the initial break in runs -

[Redcap]

I know I came in late and I've been drinking a little, so I don't want to read it all..


The reading on those plugs is WAY rich.